Over on Baseball Prospectus Unfiltered (no subscription required), there have been a pair of posts (3/14 & 3/15) by Will Carroll and Kevin Goldstein about a bill approved by the NYC legislature banning metal bats from New York high school teams. The argument is that metal bats cause balls to be hit harder, and therefore are more likely to cause life-threatening injuries. While largely backed up by anecdotal evidence, there have apparently been cases in which kids have been killed by being hit in the chest by a batted ball off of an aluminum bat.
Carroll argues that this bill is just common sense, and that wooden bat manufacture has been improved to such a degree that they are no longer significantly less durable and cost-effective than metal bats. Goldstein argues that cost may still be a factor, but that metal bat manufacturers could address the safety issue by producing bats that are less potent.
Admittedly it's going to be a while yet before my kid is playing little league, but since I'm sure many of you have children in little league, I wanted to ask you folks your take on this issue:
- Are you worried about the use of metal bats in little league?
- Is there any discussion in your local little leagues about the possibility of eliminating metal bats?
- Do you think that wooden bats can still be cost effective (e.g. compare wooden bat cost vs. cost for metal bats used in little league--do kids actually use the $500 whip-handled, carbon fiber bats?)?
- How would you compare this controversy to other safety-related controversies, such as the use of face guards on batting helmets? Is the concern more or less real? How much would the use of wooden bats change the game?
My son is in Little League and of course use Aluminum bats. I think and I've heard a couple announcers talk about this. One being Mike Blowers during the Mariners/Giants game tonight.
ReplyDeleteIf they can produce a Aluminum bat that has more pop, why can't they dial down the bats for little league?
I don't know how wooden bats would change LL or Highschool ball right now. I really should give this more thought. But I was cruising by tonight and thought Id at least jot down what I was thinking.
it's just another instance of the nanny state. what's next, no running on playgrounds? oh wait, that's already happened, too!
ReplyDeleteThanks for the comments folks.
ReplyDeleteMy take is that if there's a legitimate safety concern and it doesn't negatively impact the game, I'm for the change. That's the reason I support having face guards on batting helmets (not to mention batting helmets themselves) in little league, for example.
But in this case, I'm not yet convinced there is enough data to justify the move to wooden bats. I'd predict that we'll still have deaths from batted balls using wooden bats. And the economic (not to mention environmental) costs seem to be real problems with that plan.
I would support Goldstein and Rain Delay's suggestion to implement a requirement for "colder" aluminum bats in little league that have similar performance profiles to wooden bats. ... or at least a restriction against whip-handle, carbon-fiber bats. That moves things toward having slower batted balls without placing an undue financial burden on leagues and players (this could be helped by having a 3-year transition or something).
Anyway, interesting topic. Thanks. -j
Couldn't agree more. We just need to have more stringent regulations on how much pop (or not) little league bats have.
ReplyDeleteWooden bats are wonderful, but its only a matter of time before some poor kid gets a nice chunk of a wooden bat through some part of his body. I am a huge fan of the wooden baseball bat myself. I buy probably 3 a year to use. Problem is, they do break. Granted I am facing guys throwing 75-80, and I am swinging a bit harder than little league kids are....but I have had a bat break on the first swing in batting practice when the ball was coming in at 60 tops. I wasnt sawed off, it was just bad wood. I think this is just a poor idea and not very cost effective. I know as a youth player, my family couldnt afford to go out and buy a bat, so I always used team bats or other players bats. If kids are switching to wooden bats, I wouldnt want other kids using my kids bat, becuase you can actually break it, I am now out 30-40 bucks. If they want to regulate it, kids need to all use walmart model aluminum bats that you can buy for 30 bucks. There is nothing special about those bats.
ReplyDeleteThey do,Little League approved bats all have a label on them that states "BPF 1.15" the BPF stands for bat performance factor. The 1.15 = the performance of a wood bat. If I understand it correctly metal bats used in LL have no more punch than a wood bat. Their big advantage is the larger sweet spot and the weight drop so the little kids can develop more bat speed. My son uses a wood bat for practice, and a metal bat for games it has made him a much better hitter.
ReplyDeleteHi Jin, I wrote about this metal vs. wood issue a few months ago on a blog I co-write. Here is the link the specific story.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.rockchalktalk.com/story/2007/1/5/155958/0309
If you read down to the comments you'll get some links to preliminary studies of the issue. Seems like the bottom line at this point is that in fact metal bats are a bit more dangerous. If you think they should be banned or not is your call, but almost certainly a few more kids are seriously hurt each year due to the use of metal.
Take care, James (JQ)
Ahhh, that link didn't seem to come out in full. Here, you can just click here I think.
ReplyDeleteTake care, James
@Anonymous 5:44pm,
ReplyDeleteThat's interesting to hear. From your statement, though, it sounds like simply making the bats conform to that standard wouldn't be enough, though, given your reports of the greater bat speed that's possible with aluminum. But that should be something that could be addressable by adding uniform weight down the barrel of the bat to get it to equivalent weight as a wooden bat.
@James,
Thanks for those links--it's good to see some data. I thought the PBS report via the forever11.com site was particularly helpful.
-j
Hi Jin,
ReplyDeletePersonally, I don’t think manipulating metal bats is the answer. I prefer just going to wood. There is a lot of money to be made in selling aluminum bats which enhance performance and, as we all know, if there is money to be made someone will find a way to make it.
But that is just one man’s opinion.
Supposedly the NCAA regulations were going to make metal bats more or less equal to wood bats. I don’t think it worked. And, more importantly, the pro scouts don’t think it worked either as they continue to flock to the wood summer leagues and always note numbers achieved with metal as such.
Glad you liked the story. If you are interested in college baseball in general then maybe you’d also like the whole College Baseball 101 series. You can read it to that new baby of yours to put her to sleep.
James
I have two boys who play little league, and I am a coach.
ReplyDeleteI am worried about alloy bats. Many leagues have a three year age span(Ages 7-9, or ages 10-12)
We were not willing to play our 7 year olds in the infield. When a 9 year old who could hit well came up to bat, there was too much risk that a 7 year old rookie kid at 3rd or pitcher or first wouldn't react fast enough to a line drive.
In Montana in 2005, Brandon Patch, age 18, was killed while pitching, with a line drive from a metal bat in an American Legion game. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/04/22/health/main690192.shtml
Think about that. You are there watching your son pitch. Then a line drive, and he is dead, or maimed. I am waiting to see a report where this happens with wood...I know it COULD, but it doesn't. The studies do show that alloy bats are designed to increase bat speed, and ball speed of hits. Studies show balls come off newer composite alloy bats 20 miles per hour faster than they do off of wood. That greatly reduces a young boys reaction time...
Read this story: http://earlyshow.blogspot.com/2006/07/bats-too-powerful-fields-too-small.html
OK, look. Sports are risky games to play. Players have been hurt since the beginning of sports. I’m not saying to not make things as safe a possible, but don’t take it too far.
ReplyDeleteThere are statistics to support both sides of the bat issue, safe/not safe. But let’s face it Little League is going to a BPF (Bat Performance Facture) for 12 and under and BESR for 13 and older that will restrict the ball speed off aluminum bats to be that of wood.
What this all comes down to is perception of advantage for the player/team. We need to win, don’t use that crummy wood. Also, don’t forget the money for the bat manufacturer. However, one thing is being missed, the skill development of the player.
Statistics of collage batting averages show that aluminum bats increased averages by about 20%. This is due to the aluminum bats having a larger sweet spot. The longer you take to switch to a wooden bat the harder it is to adjust to the reduced sweet spot. Some players never make the adjustment. Safety aside, the moment a player is able to swing a 30 oz. bat they should be using wood.
The best way to not get hurt in sports is don’t play.
The best way to not get hurt in sports is don’t play.
ReplyDelete...at which point you lose some of the positive benefits that are associated with playing (i.e. aerobic exercise, camaraderie, discipline, teamwork, sportsmanship, etc). Not a good solution either.
This is how I see it, a year later:
1. There will always be some physical risk associated with a sport involving a small, hard ball moving around the field at 100 mph. Injury risk is a part of the game.
2. We should take reasonable steps to minimize the risk of serious injury that do not impair the game. If this means using wooden bats, face shields for batters, and light helmets for infielders, I'm all for it. If it means changing the rules to prevent pitchers from throwing inside, I'm against it.
Your point about wooden bat use being better training for future pro careers is a good one as well, though something of a separate issue in my mind. After all, how many players are really intending to go pro?
-j